Question & Answers with Sri Sri Ravi Shankar
When everything is changing then how can it still be meaningful.
Sri Sri Ravi Shankar:
Everything is changing and that change is meaningful. Everything is changing, and there is something which is not changing. And the changing and non-changing are two sides of the same coin. The non-changing has become the changing, that is the meaning of it. If you are confused, that means you got it (laughter). If you feel you have understood it, then you have not got it.
Keep the aspiration for higher knowledge. Be content, happy and yet have aspiration for higher knowledge. These are two opposite things – one side is contentment and on the other side is longing for higher knowledge.
If you are simply longing for higher knowledge without any contentment, then you will go all over the place, you will go spiritual shopping and hear and do so many things and get thoroughly confused.
If you have only contentment and you feel ‘I have learnt it all’, then you will allow the passion for knowledge to die out. The skill that you need to develop is to keep the passion for knowledge, and at the same time maintain the contentment; a balance – this is the bicycle that you have to ride!
Longing or craving with frustration will do you no good. The scriptures very clearly say this. If you are longing, craving and running with frustration, you will get more frustrated. You won’t get anywhere. At the same time, if you are contented, inert and laid back, and you think, ‘Anyways whatever has to happen will happen. Anyways it is all karma’, then too, you will not get anywhere.
In India this is what has happened. When it comes to doing something good, people say, “God willing, it will happen”. To do anything wrong, we don’t say, “If God is willing let it happen”.
When I was in Israel, they showed me two groups of people – one group of society are working hard. The other side of the society keeps saying,” If God willing it will happen”, and they haven’t ploughed the field at all. Nothing is growing on the field.
On the other side, the people are finding innovative ways of farming through drip irrigation, and other things, and they are growing.
In India also, it is like this. People say, “If God calls me to do meditation, then I will come.” You think God is going to call you, “Come, do meditation.”
So this is a sense of contentment with no passion. And there are some who have passion with no contentment. Both are two extremes. But the one who succeeds will have passion and contentment, together.
If you look at Mahatma Gandhi’s life, this was there – he was content at every step and he had passion as well. He would do satsang every day, meditate, listen to the Bhagavad Gita. Contentment and passion was both part of his routine. You will also see this in all those who are successful.
(To the crowd attending the satsang): Keep in mind, that you already have both contentment and passion. I see the contentment in all your faces, and it is because you have passion that you are all here. So, don’t doubt yourself. If you have no passion, you wouldn’t come here. You have all the virtues. You don’t have to cultivate any of these. Go with this confidence!
Gurudev, why there is pain in longingness?
Sri Sri Ravi Shankar:
The pain is good will make you very creative. It will bring out the poet from within you, or it will make you an artist. It can also bring out the sevak in you. It can bring out the warrior in you. You have so many good qualities, and longing will bring them all out.
There was one generation of Masters who were very tough. Tough in the sense, if you desire something, that will not happen. They would nip desire in the bud.
If the you would say. “I want to go to California”, then forget about it, you will never go to California. To come to a state of no-mind, they would use this tactic of crushing every desire that would arise. At some point of time you would have to give-up, and then you go to the no-mind state when you are unconditionally happy.
If you would go to them and say, “Oh, I have this problem”, they would say, ”It’s your karma, bear it. You must have done something terrible, so experience it and finish it off”. That was the attitude – no compassion. Just imagine if there is no compassion, then what do you need to do? You have to stand up.
A creeper needs a tree to stand up, but a tree doesn’t need another tree to stand up. So, they would completely destroy all that is delicate in you. If you are emotional, they would take a hammer. If you complain, they would say, ‘Let it be’. If you say, “Some people are blaming me”. They would say, “Yes, more people should blame you”. They would push all your buttons and make you so numb to everything in the world, till you realize that everything is nothing. It was a very tough journey. I don’t think anyone of you can survive for even one day, it was such a tough atmosphere.
All that you identify yourself as would be simply ripped off. It was a long and tough journey. which very few could survive. And there would be a millions chances to doubt and run away, only the very strong could survive such conditions.
In The Art of Living, we have taken a complete 180 degree turn and adopted a completely different route. Here we say, “What is your desire? Okay, let it be fulfilled”. Sometimes I wonder, “Am I making everyone weak?” But there is no option. At least this has put you on the path of knowledge.
I see you all are growing. Everyone is growing but I tell you, don’t get stuck in small little things. This world is Maya. There are always some issues that will prop up in life. You will have some excuse or some incidences to worry about. When such things come, you have to remember that this is all Maya, this is all ephemeral, this is all impermanent and stand up.
Your wants and desires are getting fulfilled. For some people it takes longer time, for some people it happens in a shorter time, and for some people it happens immediately. Many times, we only have put thought-constraints in our own mind. We put the sankalpa and we put the vikalpa as well. And to come out of this mess I don’t see any other path which is as effective as ours right now. If I find something better, I will myself ask you to do it. But the other generations of masters were very different.
Gurudev, how do we handle a situation where one family member wants to convert to another religion?
Sri Sri Ravi Shankar:
First of all, honor all religions. The real problem is that they don’t know their own religion completely. Tell them to first understand their own religion, study and go deep into it and then decide.
When you are converting religions, you are implying that this religion is not good, which is why I am taking another one. If you go into the root of any religion, you realize that all religions are one. And so you honor, learn from everybody and grow spiritually.
Conversion should be from the head to the heart, from badness to goodness and not from one religion to another.
In India, there are so many temples but unfortunately there is ill maintenance of our temples. The people who visit these temples behave badly and mess up the temples. As a result, a lot of our children do not want to go to temples anymore. What is the way forward?
Sri Sri Ravi Shankar:
Yes, this is true especially in Tamil Nadu, but not in Karnataka. If you see the temples in Karnataka, they are kept very neat and clean. We need to teach the people in Tamil Nadu to maintain cleanliness.
Often people come to the temple, break a coconut and spill the water all over and then leave in a hurry. This is because the people are too caught up in rituals in Tamil Nadu. In North India that is not the case. In the North, they sit and sing bhajans, and the temples are kept fairly clean. Of course, there are some temples there also which are dirty. We need to educate the priests of the temples to keep temples clean.
The thevarams (hymns) that are sung in the temples are so beautiful. They address God saying ‘You are my wealth, you are my honey, my eyes, my everything’. This is a very unique way of addressing God as my beloved. When these songs are sung, the meanings should also be explained to people; otherwise, they chant in some language that nobody understands, and people don’t connect. They just go to the temple, do some rituals and leave the temple.
Actually, when you go to a temple, you should sit there for some time and then come. But what do people do? They do an act of sitting down and getting up in 10 seconds or less, they pretend as though they sat. Why? Because it is part of the rules that if people don’t sit in the temple, then they won’t get any benefits. This is written in the temple’s rules and regulations. That won’t help; sitting means what? They should sit in meditation. There are a thousand pillars in many of the temples in Tamil Nadu. These pillars are meant for people to sit and meditate, and go deep inwards, but nobody does it.
Even the aarti that is done, nobody understands why they do it! In aarti, you light a camphor and say to God ‘Let my life keep going around you only, and not away from you. Let your thoughts linger on in my mind all day and night’. This is the prayer. Our life is like a flame. If you light a candle and turn it upside down, the flame still goes up. Like that, you pray, ‘Let my enthusiasm, my life and values always go up, and let it always be around you’. This is the feeling behind the aarti, but we don’t understand it.
Why do you break a coconut in the temple? Our body is compared to a coconut. Body should be strong like the shell. The mind should be like the white kernel inside, and your heart or feelings should be like the sweet water. So by breaking the coconut, you say, ‘I keep my emotions and feelings, like the sweet water, in front of you.’
You need some rituals to express your feelings, e.g., when someone dear to you comes, you greet them with flowers. In the ancient days, they did these rituals. Whatever God is doing to you, you say, ‘I am going to replicate, do the same to you.’ Like when children play, they say, ‘I have become a doctor, and I am going to test you or I am making coffee and you should drink!’
There is a joy in playing like that; puja is the same (concept). God has given you rain, so you offer him water. He has given you rice, fruits so you also offer rice and fruits. Such practices are also there in Buddhism, Jainism, Hinduism and Sikhism. This has been developed in the East and is also done in Islam and Christianity; you offer candles and flowers in Christianity. In Islam, you go to the Darga, spread a sheet, offer prayer beads and flowers. If these rituals are not done with feelings, then there is no purpose in doing them, and it is not compulsory that you have to do it.
In the olden days, temples were not just places of worship; they were centers of culture where dance, music and poetry would flourish. It was a meeting place for community people to get together, there were no separate community halls those days. Weddings happened in temples, there was art and architecture. You see the Meenakshi temple in Madurai, see the amount of paintings and carvings there, it is unbelievable.
When I was in Hyderabad, they took me to this 1,000 pillars temple, which was dilapidated. The beauty was that you could pass a fine thread through those stone carvings. It is a wonder as to how they carved such needles without breaking the stones, where only a thread could pass through; we had some amazing workmanship then. Temples were the kind of places where all this was exhibited, so we definitely need to keep them clean. We need to educate people; knowledge of all this is necessary.
Gurudev, my children have brought home a puppy, and every time I touch the puppy I feel I have to take a bath before I say my prayers. I am now fed up with having to bathe so many times. What should I do?
Sri Sri Ravi Shankar:
(Laughter) It is not necessary to keep on bathing like this. You need to be clean but you can just wash your hands before you say your prayers, that is good enough. Dogs are also a part of God. We don’t bathe for God, we bathe so that we are clean, God will accept us as we are! It is only the neighbors who will have a problem if we don’t bathe! (Laughter)
Even with regard to fasting, people misunderstand it to be something we are doing for God. You are not doing it for God. God is like your mother, or your father; would they like it if you stay hungry? Or if you bargain with them saying that you will fast until they accept your demands? Parents know when to give what to their children; They know better than you. Similarly, God knows what and when to give you, so don’t fast for God; fast to cleanse your body and mind.
Ekadashi (eleventh day of the fortnight) fasting has a very scientific reason; it is done three days before the full moon or new moon day, to cleanse the body. It is said one should eat only fruits or drink fruit juice. This change in your food intake eliminates the toxins in the body, which could otherwise cause diseases. These toxins in the system get aggregated during full moon and new moon, so to keep the body healthy it is suggested that we fast, and not to keep God happy.
Gurudev, India is a rich country with poor people, and I feel that this is the case because of corruption. What are your thoughts on this?
Sri Sri Ravi Shankar:
India was under foreign rule for many centuries. After going through all that, with a population that is three times that of America, with only one-third of their land mass, with 600 dialects and 28 languages, the country is the equivalent of a continent, and yet, it is progressing. Why don’t you see this positive side?
If you go to any village today, even in the slums, they have televisions. When we came to this area in Bangalore, there wasn’t a single tiled roof. Everywhere, in all the villages, there were only thatched roofs. (I also liked the thatched roof but when it rains, it would leak.) Today, do you see any thatched roofs at all? No!
India is growing very fast. In spite of seven religions in this country and so many languages, yet there is harmony. We have relatively less number of mental hospitals or even cases of depression. Of course, we have our negative side; there is corruption, uncleanliness, lethargy and indifference.
Last year, there was this huge cry of India being intolerant; I would say that India is not intolerant, it is indifferent. We should have some more intolerance towards corruption and injustice, but we don’t do that, we take it all in our stride. This is where we need to wake up.
At the same time, there are many positive things. There are so many large-hearted people in this country. If you go to a village, they may have only one glass of buttermilk, yet they will share half of it with you. There is still that feeling of caring and sharing in every village here. It may not be the case with urban cities; they have become the same all over the world.
If you see only the negative side, you will feel there is no hope. Then you will say, “This is so corrupt, let me also become corrupt.” Your motivation to stand up against corruption will die. But if you see the positive side, then you will have the motivation to stand up. Whenever you see the negative, you should see the positive side also. If you had these problems anywhere in Europe, India would have become like the former Yugoslavia or the Balkan States and broken up into pieces. What is it that unites the whole country? It is spirituality!
I want others to appreciate me.
Sri Sri Ravi Shankar:
Whenever you expect anything from others, appreciation or anything else, you are not being independent, and this is bound to bring you down. You must say, “I don’t expect anything from others, but whatever I need to do, I will keep on doing it.”
Gurudev, we keep asking you questions. Do you have a question that you would like to ask us?
Sri Sri Ravi Shankar:
I am asking you this question, ‘Do you follow a Guru?’ I ask everyone questions all the time; I ask them ‘How are you?’ ‘Are you happy?’ Though I know the answer still I ask. These are the only questions I ask, and I am not looking for answer. I ask the question only to engage you. I am asking questions so that you feel good about it. My questions are not for myself, my questions are for you, to make you happy. This is a secret I have shared for first time. I never tell this secret to anyone.
You once said that Guru is a presence, it is not a person, what does this mean?
Sri Sri Ravi Shankar:
See, certain questions have no answers. If you have to say whether you follow a Guru, the answer is neither ‘Yes’ nor ’No’. If you say ‘No’, then the question has no meaning. If you say ‘Yes’, then it has no meaning.
You say, ‘Yes and No’. ‘Yes’ means you have a Guru. ‘No’ means you are not following your Guru because Guru has already reached and he is giving you his hand.
When the Guru is looking down, you don’t look down, you look up. When the Guru is giving his hand down, you don’t give a hand down, you should give your hand up. Got it!
If you say you got it means you didn’t get it, and if you say I didn’t get it, then you got it (laughter). If someone asks you, ‘Do you follow the Guru?’ You can’t say ‘No’ and you can’t say ‘Yes’. Some questions you have to answer then differently.
Why is it that sometimes we don’t trust in the Guru. Why do we have doubts that arise?
Sri Sri Ravi Shankar:
Should you follow the Guru? I am asking you. How many of you think that you should follow the Guru, raise your hands? (Everyone in the audience raise their hands).
If you are following the Guru, that means the Guru is also walking. He hasn’t reached the goal. See, the Guru is someone who knows more than you. So the Guru is standing up and he is giving a hand to the one sitting down. Guru is looking down and giving the hand down. If you also do that, where will you be?
Just imagine a ladder, where Guru is on the top and looks down and gives you a hand. If you follow the Guru, which means that you also look down and give your hand down, then what will happen to you?
When Guru looks down, you look up and give your hand up, and then you keep going up. If you follow the Guru, he looks down and you look down, you will never reach. So, don’t follow the Guru (everyone laughs loud as Gurudev explains a complete catch 22 situation).
Guru is looking down and giving his hand. You should do the opposite. You look up and give your hand. How can you reach if you do what your Guru is doing? Should you follow the Guru?
If you are following the Guru, it means the Guru is walking and you both are walking, which means you are not sure if the Guru has reached the destination. And if you say, that I don’t follow the Guru, then there is no Guru at all (Laughter). Like, if you say, I don’t take medicine means you had no doctor.
If Guru says something and you don’t follow it, then you have no Guru. If Guru says “Don’t follow me”, and you don’t follow the Guru, then you have followed. And if you follow the Guru, then you have not followed (laughter).
Devotee: Okay, so then we just drop ‘follow’. How about ‘trust’!
Doubt your Guru as much as you can. The Guru is not there to give you trust, in fact he puts a lot of doubts in your mind so that you bake and boil in the doubt, and become strong.
If you don’t trust the Guru, then he is happy; he is free. It is better for him if you doubt. If someone trusts you, then you have a responsibility. If no one trusts you then you have no responsibility; happy-go-lucky. So, why will the Guru try to keep your trust, he is happy to put more doubts so that you boil, work on it, and then walk. When they become mature, they will come back themselves.
The Guru’s idea is to make everyone strong, and all these doubts will make you strong, and if your trust remains after all these doubts, then that is the real thing.
If there are a thousand occasions to doubt and still your trust is there, then you are something! You are like a diamond. But if you keep doubting on the small things, then you are like a corn flake. How light is a corn flake? You blow a little and a corn flake will fly away. If you are like a dew drop, then with a little bit of sunlight, a dew drop dries away. Or you can be like a diamond, which stays the same. And when the sunlight comes the diamond shines more.
So why would the Guru help you hold on to your trust? Then it would be a weak trust, someday it will blow away. So doubt as much as you can, cook in your doubt, because truth is beyond doubt. Truth is something which can never be obscured forever. Everyone will discover the truth one day.
Suppose mist is there, will the mist make the mountain disappear? No! What will the mountain say, “Let the mist come and go, who cares?” When you wait for a little bit of the sun (of knowledge) to come, all the mist (doubts) disappears.
While coming here in the morning, there was so much mist, but nobody stopped driving. You doubted but you didn’t stop because something deep inside you made you keep moving. Even though doubts hang around, something makes us move, and that is our soul wanting the truth. Our inner will soul move in the direction of truth.
Once in Sweden, a journalist asked me this question, “Are you enlightened? Don’t beat around the bush.”
I looked at him and said, “No.”
He said, “You are kidding. Tell me the truth”.
I said, “What is that tells you that I am not telling you the truth? Your own inner voice. It is telling you that there is something different here. Trust in yourself and you will see that the trust grows.”
When a person doesn’t trust themselves then they start doubting others also. Doubting others is related to doubting oneself. Someone who has a lot of self-doubt will also keep doubting everybody.
Still, the journalist will not take the answer. He said, “I don’t believe what you are saying. Something in the heart know and can identify”
I said, “Yes, then you believe in that”.
So, if you say that ‘I don’t follow the Guru’, then that person is not your Guru at all. If you don’t take the medicine given by a doctor, then that man is no more your doctor. If I take medicine from you then you are my doctor. If I learn something from you then you are my teacher. If I say ‘I don’t learn anything from you’, then you are no longer my teacher. So if you say ‘I don’t follow the Guru’ that means he is not your Guru.
If you say that you are following the Guru, that means your Guru has not reached. If you say you are not following the Guru, then that person is not a Guru to you at all. So what is the answer to this question?
Devotees: We are confused!
See, Guru has reached the goal; he is at home and he is only welcoming you. There is no question of following.
Devotees: We are just chasing you wherever you go!
If you are chasing your Guru, means your Guru is also running (roars of laughter).